::: post-protestant thoughts :::

::: no garage sale just moving :::

2005-02-07T17:13:00.000-05:00

style="font-size:180%;">HERE!!! at some point between thanksgiving and christmas i began a 'remodeling' project that took on a life of its own . . . through a lot of trial and error i ended up with a 'new website' . . . since many of my 'regulars' have already found it and changed their links i decided that the decision to move or not to move was made for me . . . so from this point forward i am . . .

::: old attempts at creativity :::

2005-02-06T00:50:00.000-05:00

over at rearviewwindow . . . there is a link to Hal Samples work at the IR Gallery . . . look here at the Hero to Zero project . . . i have been making an honest attmpt to cultivate my creative side . . . when i was in high school one of my most important interests was photography . . . Hal does great work . . .

i found this at cbsnews.com . . . it was taken by a AP photographer . . . it speaks volumes to me about the 'good side' of american efforts in iraq . . .

peace :::

::: a voice from the past reminds me :::

2005-02-05T03:20:00.000-05:00

because of the events over the last few weeks i have been both pretty sick and pretty depressed . . . i probably still am depressed . . . today i went to the store . . . its a little further than our bathroom just down the hall so i’m counting that as progress . . . i am still extremely weak and i get tired so easily . . . there are so many things that have happened, happening, and pending . . . i can’t possibly blog it, and some are of the issues are not fit for public consumption, not even personal consumption, but intimate stuff . . . but this song represents how i am feeling . . .

You’re Only Human (Second Wind)

Original Release: 1985
You're having a hard time and lately you don't feel so good
You're getting a bad reputation in your neighborhood
It's alright, it's alright
Sometimes that's what it takes
You're only human, you're allowed to make your share of mistakes

You better believe there will be times in your life
When you’ll be feeling like a stumbling fool
So take it from me you'll learn more from you accidents
Than anything you could ever learn at school

Don't forget your second wind
Sooner or later you'll get your second wind
It's not always easy to be living in this world of pain
You're gonna be crashing into stone walls again and again
It's alright, it's alright

Though you feel your heart break
You're only human, your gonna have to deal with heartache
Just like a boxer in a title fight
You got to walk in that ring all alone
You're not the only one who's made mistakes
But they're the only things that you can truly call your own

Don't forget your second wind
Wait in your corner until that breeze blows in

You've been keeping to yourself these days
Cause you're thinking everything's gone wrong
Sometimes you just want to lay down and die
That emotion can be so strong
But hold on
Till that old second wind comes along

You probably don't want to hear advice from someone else
But I wouldn't be telling you if I hadn't been there myself
It's alright, it's alright
Sometimes that's all it takes
We're only human
We're supposed to make mistakes
But I survived all those long lonely days
When it seemed I did not have a friend
Cause all I needed was a little faith
So I could catch my breath and face the world again
Don't forget your second wind
Sooner or later you'll feel that momentum kick in
Don't forget your second wind
Sooner or later you'll feel that momentum kick in

peace :::

::: i am still here :::

2005-02-02T02:45:00.000-05:00

i am still here . . . i am not physically able to do much more than get off of the couch or out of bed for an occasional drink or getting rid of the one i had just a little earlier . . . my myasthenia gravis is really aggravated i have had this for about 5 years but nothing like this . . . i go back to mercy hospital thursday . . . i am concerned about going back . . . the last time not fun . . . i was on the verge of passing out, and nauseas, and this clammy sweat like hot flash all at the same time . . .

i am extremely weak . . . i no longer sit up at the computer and even occasionally blog . . . my sleeping habits are utterly whacked out too . . . if i stay up till say 4am i wake up at around 9am . . . if i go to sleep at around 11pm i wake up at 3am . . . thus the early morning post today . . . i'm trying to ‘just go with the currents’ . . . but know that i'm not doing that well at it i'm still fighting everything that's not going my way . . .

peace :::

::: is it really 'all good' ?? :::

2005-01-22T15:17:00.000-05:00

the presidential inauguration was controversial for me and other americans . . . here, here, here, and here . . . are articles discussing the prayers offered the inauguration . . . the supreme court on the 19th rejected a challenge to a clergy-led prayer . . . (more on that here) . . . not many comments on the prayers in blogdom . . . dwightfriesen did discuss the issue . . . but its not a ‘hot’ topic . . . in front of the capitol, before an audience of the president, and the entire viewing american public, even the entire world . . . . . .

civic ecumenism is of the utmost of importance in situations like this. . . one problem is evangelical triumphalism it assumes is theologically right about EVERYTHING . . . and if you disagree with the prayer the evangelical perspective is that (by osmosis) the prayer can ‘help you’ (individual desire and opinion is not considered) . . . if you down-right disagree you can . . . ‘just ignore it’ . . . however the truth is . . . a prayer like this further polarizes the situation and leaves those who didn't agree on the outside of the experience . . . this is EXACTLY what the country's framers wanted to prevent . . .

modern evangelical agendas believe that if the words . . . Jesus, Jesus, Jesus . . . (not to be confused with the culturally magical version ~ abracadabra ~ ) is said enough times, particularly in promenade places . . . somehow in a magical fashion people to ‘get saved’ . . . this is an algorithmic formula at best . . . it’s an expression of modern pop theology and a shortcut to relational methods . . . of course, every theological statement taken to its logical end bring us to irrational conclusions . . . does it have no redeeming value?. . . that can be argued both ways . . . i conclude it does have some value but harm occurs too . . . the problem for me is that this approach has become the normative model and not the exception . . . i strongly disagree with that . . . this method is somewhat effective for perpetrating mass levels of ‘cultural christianity’ . . . much like constantine did with roman culture . . . but is this the gospel?? . . . God forbid!

this approach is practiced by those that theologically adhere to nuda scriptura . . . no balance with tradition, no consideration of the early church fathers, and no confessional considerations . . . but i digress . . . more than helping ‘our cause’ these modern religious methods further polarizing our circumstances and this weeks presidential inauguration increased that divide . . . simply: the prayer, represented a christian theology and a use of language not shared by a nation of diverse beliefs . . .

chuck colson correctly observes . . . ‘there has been a complete role reversal between conservatives and liberals’ ... the president said "by the truths of Sinai, the Sermon on the Mount, the words of the Qur'an and the varied faiths of our people..." many feel this was an outrageous statement … clearly, christianity has played the most prominent role in this shaping the character of individuals in this country ... the president did not attempt to refute that … instead he was simply attempting to ‘give honor where honor is due’ . . . it IS a major world religion and SOME american have been made better by it . . . therefore, making our country better for it . . . i believe it was a good thing to say . . .

is this christianity?? … picture this … at an evangelical gala, conservatives -- sipping apple cider spritzers in martini glasses … where diamond cross necklaces replaced plunging necklines … some 800 conservative Christians "broke bread" at a $300-a-ticket celebration at the ritz-carlton hotel … one reporter observed -- across town, buddhists prayed for peace in a world torn by terrorism and war … the buddhists gathered for a candlelight vigil and meditation for the victims of war and aggression and those suffering from division, anger and fear … the stark contracts speak for themselves … the contrast as distasteful as it is liiustrates we are living in a theological upside-down-ville’ . . . this cultural/evangelical christianity has such a significant voice in the culture that nt models of . . . character formation, and the relational aspects are not being virtually heard … hugh byrne, a co-founder of the washington buddhist peace fellowship correctly observes that the buddhist vigil "has a different feel to it -- it's not all shouting slogans" . . . this is a terribly accurate indictment against our ‘christian’ apologetic . . . Lord, have mercy!

charles anderson, a lay minister from tx said . . . ‘we believe that God has set president bush in order for such a time as this and that he is an actual burning bush for the united states and for the world, kind of like a light . . . as the bush burns, it's also setting people free because fire cleanses." . . . this is obviously both ridiculous and extreme position admittedly but it does illustrate the lengths of this current heresy . . . this is civil religion at best not nt christianity . . . and certainly not the relational Jesus handed down to us . . .

praying for greater peace and the historic gospel:::

:::how do you spell LOVE? :::

2005-01-21T20:20:00.000-05:00

. . . a picture is worth a thousand words :::

things are progressing ... pretty well this process is EXTREMELY draining physically . . . i had the nurse take this picture for jonathan and thought i would post it too . . . the big (yellow) bag in the picture that looks like urine is NOT actually . . . close . . . those are my white blood cells that have been filtered out . . . 9 pints!!!

it was sort of an interesting experience today . . . . i have been discipling this guy (dwayne) for about . . . 4 months now . . . we haven't been able to meet as much as i would like because of the Christmas season at the store and my health . . . . i'm very bothered by that and we are working on being more intentional about spending time together . . . (when jonathan was really little and he was learning to spell i would ask him how to spell LOVE . . . and in a well rehearsed fashion . . . proudly, with an approving big smile he would correctly spell love: T – I – M – E) real discipleship has to be about sharing our lives together and not only the gospel . . . dwayne and i are working on intentionally prioritizing t - i - m - e . . . and today was just another step in the right direction . . . except i was the grace recipient this time . . . he has had an extremely difficult life . . . marriages, years of drugs, kids, and he is working through it . . . decisions that cannot be reversed easily . . . (i know a go deal about those sorts of things not because i have read about them) . . . (HE IS USING MOST EVERY AVAILABLE TOOLS AT HIS DISPOSAL . . . and that's saying something!). . . we got to talk for an hour or so on the way to the hospital . . . . he seems to be doing really good . . . he is consistently doing the next right things to the degree that he is making real progress . . . we are talking about doing a bible study at the store together . . .???. . . when i get healthy enough . . .

while ‘on the machine’ there was this rc priest next to me having the same procedure . . . (fr. farmer) we began talking about what i was reading (analogy :0 ) . . . biblical authority . . . by nt wright . . . he asked me about my journey . . . he was gentle and good natured . . . when i told him i attended an episcopal church he said . . . ‘oh, you mean catholic lite’ . . . i told him that the taste-great ~ less-filling thing was killing me at this point . . . . it was a very pleasant conversation . . . and he gave me the name of a friend who is a priest that lives near me . . . he said that this priest has pastoral gifts . . . which i need . . . very interesting day indeed . . .

God’s peace :::

::: spiritual hugging :::

2005-01-20T16:30:00.000-05:00

i successfully made it through yesterday's ‘procedure’ . . . it was not nearly as invasive as i had thought it might be . . . however i underestimated the level of weakness removing all of my blood would cause . . . on the return segment of the process they warmed my blood . . . that was very nice! . . . basically all that i can do is sit around and read . . . and blog ;) . . . its sounds heavenly even to me . . . but i’m a ‘people person’ . . . i miss the interaction of other people . . .

this morning i have been thinking . . . that as a result of theologically change over many years , i have intentionally attempted to move my family away from the protestant excess of nuda scriptura . . . our family has STRUGGLED … SIGNIFICANTLY … to implement ANY kind of gathering together to . . . pray . . . read . . . or celebrate . . . holy communion . . . (did i mention that this has been a significant struggle?) . . . of all the metaphysical efforts of my life this represents the single most difficult topology to advance and maintain . . . this is the single most important spiritual front to me personally . . . not the many Sunday school classes, not groups of teenagers visiting detention centers, not adult Christian education anywhere else . . . but at home . . . moving my family from practice (the intentionality of doing) , to routine (expected doing) to lifestyle (doing as a matter of assumption) . . . has been extraordinarily difficult . . .

today we are . . . s t i l l i n t e n t i o n a l . . . in this doing . . . but we are appreciating more intimate celebrations . . . holy communion . . . together . . . interestingly the ‘home version’ remarkably so much more intimate than the ‘processional version’ …

holy communion is only one of the directional devises of our journey … we typically light candles . . . particularly since advent … we bought several really large candles for advent and have been enjoying them since … the other night the candles had been burning for several hours . . . they were extremely soft, tender, and pliable … i had been wanting to ‘hug’ the candles (a great thing that loveable Linda taught me) to assist their burning and efficiency . . . and i began reflecting on the fact that similarly when we allow God’s Holy Spirit to indwell us through reading, prayer, reflection, meditation, etc. we too become softer, and increasing pliable . . . when we are negligent about hugging the candles and before learning how to properly hug candles the only way to increase the candle’s burning efficiency was . . . in their cold state to cut the tops with a sharp knife … its an obvious analogy i know . . . but so true … it is amazing to me how ‘hard’ my heart becomes as i busy myself with daily events . . .

God’s peace :::

::: i have the residue of life on my heart :::

2005-01-19T03:40:00.000-05:00

as you may have noticed over the past few weeks i have not blogged consistently . . . it is not because my heart has been empty and i ‘m without something to say . . . on the contrary . . . recently my heart has become so full that i haven’t known WHAT to blog . . . that’s why when i HAVE decided to blog they have been inordinately long . . . (i’m sorry for that) . . .

i have been reading recently . . . perhaps more than i have ever read . . . well at least since seminary . . . i haven’t really known what to say . . . this thing is in front of me . . . and it is not so much that i am afraid . . . well, perhaps . . . but it is more about what's inside of my heart . . . and i am fearful that it will come out . . . the bible says that confession is good for the soul . . . but you must always find someone who will/can/wants to hear your confession first . . . and then maybe . . .

many years ago when i was much young in the faith a tsunami of the soul occurred within me . . i was 22 years old and i had in fact lived unchurched all of my life . . . my father died while i was studying for the ministry . . . and for YEARS i was PISSED at God . . . i had for all intents, and purposes . . . put my life on hold (after He graciously salvaged it mind you from a garbage heap . . . some will assume i am speaking figuratively . . . i am not) i had put my life on hold and was working toward ‘full time’ ministry and God OWED it to me to help my constantly sick and now dying father . . . or so i unfortunately thought . . . that was a very long time ago . . . and in many ways that was even a different person . . . but his early death was not enough to break my stubborn heart . . . while still cocked in the full blown pissed off position of life loveable linda and i endured event after event after event, the death of my grandmother on the same day that my father died, a close uncle, a baby, i could go on . . . THAT WAS IT . . . i had come to the end of my willingness . . . THAT was the f*cking deal breaker for me . . . God had salvaged me from my own self destructive hand . . . only to f*ck my life up for His own satisfaction . . . after saving me from a life of misery, shame, and painful things that are not to be openly spoken of . . .

i was drowning in this life sized tsunami . . . my point is that these kinds of deeply painful difficulties revealed things about my heart and my heart’s condition that is simply . . . grotesque . . . like used menstrual rags is the way one author put it my hurt, anger, and fears were exposed . . . no longer being carefully guarded . . . that intense level of darkness is dangerously veneered in suburbia . . . but it is real . . . its all around us . . . and it scares me . . . at times like this it terrifies me . . . perhaps i am not the only one . . .

this much i know for sure . . . GOD IS STRONG AND GOD IS ABLE . . . but the current malaises found in today’s ‘pop christian sub-culture’ doesn’t have the power to blow the fuzz off a peach . . . . never mind heal the deep, and very real wounds of God’s people that God Himself longs to heal . . . parents alone at home with children who are dying . . . . married couples that are hurting and ashamed to tell anyone about the depths of their financial problems . . . their isolation and pain is so out of their control that the once infatuated lovers morph . . . despicably in the pain . . . they begin hurling insults at each other that are so damning neither of them are able to forget it, some make and live in silence, other don't . . . or the working heroin addict teetering at the edge of society . . . its all she can do to keep her waitress job at denny’s going . . . medicating herself with street drugs since she was a kid . . . she’s living with a constant throb caused by someone who was thought to be . . . trusted . . . we mildly interact with them everyday . . . but we don’t really ever see . . .

. . . there are still things like this deep things that remain in my heart . . . but in different forms . . . and that terrifies me . . . because they are much larger than i am . . . they are much larger than i could ever 'control' . . . and keep them decent and in order . . . i began crying as soon as i began typing this . . . i am afraid . . . not of doctors . . .not of pain . . . not of suffering . . . i am afraid of what remains within me . . . the residue of life . . . i am afraid of what the tsunami of the soul reveals within me . . . and who can hear my confession . . . and my own spiritual mother (the church) is a whore . . . she like the herion addict doesn’t properly care for her children . . . and i have the plaque on my heart from the residue of life . . . plaque like a persons teeth from a third world country . . . and i am afraid of what the tsunami of the soul reveals within me . . . and who can hear my confession . . .

'what i used to love, i love it no longer, but i lie, i love it still but less
passionately. again i have lied, i love, but more timidly, more sadly' (petrarch)

this blog/confession was for me . . . not for readers . . . I don’t know how to turn off the comments on this blog or maybe i would have??? . . . because . . . in the institutional church when ever i have said things like this . . . it has not been accepted (its too heavy someone would say) . . . some self professing self-help type is ready to tell me ‘it ain’t so’ . . . or i’m being to hard on myself . . . or perhaps just to negative . . . but it’s the truth despite all the talk . . . it’s the truth . . . and who can hear my confession . . . i have the residue of life on my heart . . .

forgive me Father for i have sinned . . . it has been far to many years since i made my last confession . . .

Lord, have mercy . . .
Christ, have mercy . . .
Lord, have mercy . . .

the peace of Christ be with you : : : +

:::Vatican Says Archbishop Kidnapped in Iraq :::

2005-01-17T17:03:00.000-05:00

UPDATE: The Iraqi Catholic archbishop of Mosul was kidnapped Monday in what the Vatican called an "act of terrorism." Archbishop Basile Georges Casmoussa, 66, was believed to be the highest-ranking Catholic prelate to be abducted in Iraq, where the local church has been the target of a bombing campaign which has rattled the tiny Christian minority. We have received news of the kidnapping of the ... Archbishop of Mosul, Basile Georges Casmoussa," Chief Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls told Reuters . . . (more)

::: what's that in your hand? :::

2005-01-17T13:54:00.000-05:00

yesterday I did not go to the celebration of the liturgy at trinity . . . i have not been feeling that well so i stayed at home and read . . . when loveable Linda and jonathan came home . . . we sat down and started talking . . . it was very refreshing because my reaction to being off of work and being sick has made me irritable . . . my communication has been poor lately and I have taken my frustrations out on my family . . . i am ashamed of that, and i feel awful . . . wednesday is my first plasma-pheresis treatment at mercy hospital . . .

i had been reading been all day and when she sat down my heart was full and fortunately the sort words softened my heart and i began emptying myself . . . thoughts on emerging church . . . and emerging theology began to flow and i talked again about my feelings around propositional theology but more spontanously than when i blogged about it . . . i admitted the many repeated mistakes i have made in the past related to various theological positions i have assumed within propositional theology . . . the various doctrines of the Holy Spirit, the swings between the importance and then the lack of importance around gifting, doctrines related to church structure, cell groups, small groups, blah, blah, blah . . . loveable linda listened and more than anyone in my life she has watched me both grow and shrink theologically through the years . . . and with all of my faltering she listens . . . propositional theology has been the source of much ‘angst’ more than once . . . but as i began to describe the relationship of propositional theology with humans and how our methods that bring logical specificity seeks an end point of separation and division . . defining and increased exactitude are pursued where greater degrees of doctrinal purity are assumed to exist . . . ultimately creating a manufactured (man made) belief system . . . separating individuals who will not (or cannot) logically (see) adhere to an interrupter’s lone perspective . . . and the cycles of division repeat as that specificity increases . . . my mind immediately went to an old testament story . . . and how a similar situation occurred in israel . . .

In 2 sam 6 the ark is being moved by the Israelites but not in the manner prescribed by God instead of transporting the ark by the poles as designed by God the israelites get an innovative idea . . . "they set the ark on a new cart . . . uzzah and ahio, sons of abinadab, were guiding the new cart " . . . its a disaster the ox pulling the cart stumbles the ark gets tipsy . . . so to prevent the ark of God’s presence from falling this genius "uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of of God because the oxen stumbled ". . . the records:

“... because of his irreverent act therfore Gods struck him down and he died
there beside the ark of God ...”

this story has always intrigued me on a couple of levels . . . when i first starting following Christ these kinds of stories always alluded me . . . i would read them and not understanding i would sort of find fault with God but i couldn't tell anyone that . . . why does He always seem to be cocked in the pissed off position? i thought to myself . . . it seemed to me that uzzah was only trying to help . . . thoughts like that were in my mind but i had no one to tell that to . . . but when i discovered some of the rabbinical traditions eplaining some of these passages they really helped me understand the story, parts of its message, and ultimately God . . .

the rabbinical tradition tells that God is not being like some modern overprotective car owner concerned that someone would scratch the ark . . . its really not so much about God it seems as it is a story within a story an that smaller story is about the assuming attitude of uzzah (the minister in this case!) . . . it seems uzzah had unconsciously assumed his own hands were far less defiling than the potential defilement of the dust of the earth . . . in other words "he thought more highly of himself than he ought" . . . which is the critical connection that brings me back to propositional theology . . .

propositional theology then is the logical extraction of key elements within the sacred stories entrusted to us . . . in the manufacturing process of propositional theology we are attempting to concentrate key points making it easier to get the larger point . . . my position is quickly becoming that this manufacturing process involved in the formulation of doctrine at man’s hands is analogous to what occurred in 2 sam 6 . . . God has already given us a methodology in the form of sacred stories themselves . . . these texts are in a literary form (oral or written they are still stories) . . . when they remain in that form discussion is inevitable and has a distinctly different sense than propositional discussions . . . various aspects of the story bubble to the top of lives and the story 'speaks to us' . . . lending its self to greater depths of community exchange and interpersonal involvement . . . HOWEVER . . . we like uzzah extend our hand toward the stories God has given us and we create our own tipsy carts we piously name church doctrine . . . for whatever reasons we are not content to just leave the stories as God gave them to us . . . we feel the need to extend our hands toward the sacred . . . and as we extend our hand toward the stories God has given us we mistakenly assume that the filth of our own hands will not defile God’s presence within those stories . . . so we help them, we prop them up with our own hands . . .

God’s peace :::

::: its the good ship lollipop :::

2005-01-14T04:45:00.000-05:00

henri nouwen tells what it feels like to be christian amid the carcass of modernism during the late 20th century . . . nouwen was at that time a chaplin on a cruise lines . . . one day he was standing on the bridge of the dutch ship as it was making its ways through the thick fog into a port in rotterdam . . . ‘the fog was so thick that the helmsman could not see the bow of the ship . . . the captain carefully listening to the radar station operator who was guiding him into the safeharbor amidst other ships . . . nervously he paced up and down the ships bridge . . .” while pacing the captain walked into henri . . . the ships chaplin . . . being very tense the captian cursed henri and told him to stay the hell out of the way . . . nouwen’s tender heart obviously filled with feelings of incompetence and guilt . . . turned to walk away . . . and the captain said somewhat sentimentally: ‘hey why don’t you just stay around, this may be the only time I really need you’ . . .

there was a time when priests and christian ministers had a place of standing with the captains of the larger culture . . the church's influence was both credible and relevant . . . not merely on the periphery of the culture the church was an integral component within it . . . if modernism has brought anything to civilization it is the fine weather of the best-fed, best-housed, best-clothed people in history, . . . spawning additional benefits like rights for women, children, and minorities, these incredible achievements have however exacted a great price over time . . . the marginalization of christianity’s influence to the proverbial sidelines . . . marginalized at best . . . useless, in the way and lacking any significant contribution at worst . . . nouwen concludes the story with the conclusion that ‘we’ who live within the ruins of modernism during the late 20th century . . . (who are ministry types) long to touch the center of men and women’s lives . . . but instead we are all to often relegated to the periphery . . . we no longer hold a place where the plans of life are formulated or where the strategies of life are discussed . . . I suspect that the answer lies within us . . . within the churches own DNA . . . the methods that we use to form our epitomized truth, that manufactured truth is believed to be truth in its purest form, we call it absolute truth . . .

john 14:6 tells us that Jesus says “. . . I am the way the truth and the life . . . “ somehow modernism has been seduced into believing that its own manufactured (absolute) truth is greater than or equal to Jesus Himself . . . the idea of absolute truth has its origin in hellenistic platonism’s perfection viewed as heavenly bodies or forms . . . absolute beauty, absolute joy, absolute . . . fill in the blank . . . when in reality "absolute" truth is a person not forms that reflect perfection to earth . . .

for better or worse . . . the early christian church in the mists of defending faith aligned themselves with rome . . . and like the modern day Nike corporation seeks out a promising hopeful the church positioned and postured to have the big roman kid ‘constantine’ wearing our sneakers on the court of life for the all of humanity to see . . . well he has worn our sneakers in every game since that time . . . and many argue that as a result western civilization has dominated the ideological wars . . . politics, economics, social institutions and a whole host of other external factors benefited . . . and the church went along for the ride . . . however, the church like nouwen at the bridge is left standing in the way of the fine weather this has all brought . . . the roman kid has now outgrown his youthful nike’s that once served him growing up . . . now the roman kid has an entourage and an agent giving him advice . . . and the entire world has watched as he has grown increasingly discontent with the single sponsor mentality . . . a single religious sponsor no longer fills the need . . . and some are even suggesting that we could now even do away with religious sponsorships altogether . . . so here we stand ‘in the way’ as the real captains of this cultural ship paces and contemplates our standing . . . we don’t need religious fanatics on the decks of democratic nations . . . or on the bridge of the america corporate boardrooms . . . particularly since all of the real work is now being done without them! . . . the episcopal bishop of newark, new jersey. john shelby spong in an article in christian century . . . explained the difficulties that episcopals have faced in this environment we find ourselves in . . . an environment of irrelevance . . .

"we sponsor workshops on church growth, helpful techniques for how to make church life more inclusive, how to bring back those who drift away, how to incorporate new members, how to carry out community-building activities. But at the deepest level this program of evangelism is, I believe, addressing only the Christian “in” group or fanning the religious nostalgia of the past. The vision of Christianity to which it calls people is by and large a narrow view of the way things used to be. Evangelism as it is presently constituted does not address the central missionary and evangelical questions of our post-Christian world, questions which are far more radical than those who are committed to evangelism seem to recognize."

Lord, have mercy . . .
Christ, have mercy . . .
Lord, have mercy . . .

peace :::

::: be careful what you ask for :::

2005-01-12T20:33:00.000-05:00

be careful what you ask for you might get it !!! . . . if you haven’t yet seen the movie ‘the terminal’ it is a good movie about a guy that is semi-permanently stuck in an international airport terminal because of immigration problems . . . he is 'a man without a country' . . . the theme of the movie . . . well that's sort of where i am with regards to my current health and the prescribed treatments . . . i feel like i'm living in a 'virtual terminal' of my own but instead of 'simple' immigration problems i am having . . . insurance problems . . . I work for a major american telecommunications corporation . . . i have good health care benefits . . . i can’t imagine what kinds of ‘run-arounds’ people that don’t have decent health care encounter . . . that in its self is somewhat humbling . . . there is so much confusion and conflicts between the insurance company, the primary health care provider, and the specialists . . . its a mess . . . so much so they can't get me scheduled until the 'administrative issues' between them are settled . . . meanwhile i had another difficult day . . . yuck! my inabilities are place more responsibilities on loveable linda . . . :(

earlier this summer our family went white water rafting . . . at first everyone in the raft worked really hard individually . . . even to the point of ‘fighting’ against the strength and power of the rivers current . . . had we continued with this original (planned from shore) ‘tactic’ of fighting the river . . . despite the helmets, the paddles, and the personal floatation devises . . . we could have died . . . (in after some time we began simply ‘going with it’ (like we really had an option) and the flow of the river which just moments earlier was an adversary to be resisted quickly became the source of a summer’s highlight . . . an adventurous day . . . with lots of stories and a vernacular of its own . . .

“the illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.” alvin toffler

this quote best describes where my head is regarding this health issue . . . rather than fighting it i am sincerely trying to ‘go with it’ and despite the personal floatation devises that might come in the form of health care aids. . . the truth is i could drown (not litereally) if i don’t . . . move from having learned, to unlearning, to relearning . . . this time of waiting has been VERY INTENSE . . . i normally read a lot . . . but since before thanksgiving i have been reading incessantly . . . and the . . . absorption rate . . . has created come very fertile ground in both my heart and in my mind . . . my sense is that this health inconvenience may be just what my soul now needs . . .

. . . speaking of reading . . . i recently read the pew internet & american life project and elon university agreed with the following prediction regarding the future of the internet . . .

at least one devastating attack will occur in the next 10 years on the networked information infrastructure or the country’s power grid . . .
1,286 experts in this survey agreed that in the next 10 years the internet will be more deeply integrated in our physical environments and high-speed connections will proliferate – with mixed results . . .
they also believe ** the dawning of the blog era ** will bring radical change to the news and publishing industry and they think the internet will have the least impact on religious institutions . . . humm . . . I wonder if they are considering the ec or the ic in this assessment??

btw : : : for those interested in classic church literature take a look at some of the ebooks in the margin to the right at the bottom of the page . . . if you anticipate struggling with other traditions perhaps starting with :::catholic catechism ::: might be a good place to start . . . specifically under the section on prayer . . . its REALLY good . . .

peace : : :

::: dear abby :::

2005-01-10T05:45:00.000-05:00

i received several encouraging notes of support for the dialysis treatments that i am scheduled to undergo at mercy hospital this week (i have myasthenia gravis and that's why i posted on sunday instead of monday) . . . about 5-6 hours each day . . . i am taking a few ‘friends’ . . . their written words have been a real source of perspective lately . . . i like many bloggers prefer control over the events of life . . . but this is clearly a season of releasing that control and usually that involves some level of discomfort or its not really testing . . . please remember my entire family in prayer . . . lovable linda is taking on far too much . . . and she is having some stuff herself and is not at 100% either . . .

another source of frustration is i received a couple of emails that ‘challenged’ my previous blog entitled : : : the problems with believing : : : the blog was written out of my sincere struggles with questions that are not allowed in the other spaces of my life . . . the email was . . . p a g e s . . . a n d . . . p a g e s . . . l o n g . . . so i almost didn't respond and because the thoughts were not fully developed . . . but i wanted to give the blogging community an opportunity to engage in the conversation and help . . . so I attached a **few** of the questions and some of my own responses . . . perhaps some of our roman catholic friends will assist with the "un-finished questions" w/in the comments sections . . . honestly stuff like Mariology are obstacles for me too and i would like to learn too . . . here are the questions and some responses . . .

William said:
. . . I can assure you that we agree on key issues, and disagree on some as well. . . . forgive me for not doing this in your "comment" fields next to your blog . . . [you said in your earlier blog] - "because protestants find their ultimate source of authority within the 'storehouse' of scripture . . . principles, truth propositions, and statements of faith are endlessly pursued (ad nauseum) ... this approach has the unspoken effect of leaving our sisters and brothers at that altar . . . the altar of sacrifice . . . simply for what we believe to be true . . . and in the name of some kind of good . . . we sacrifice our fellowship and accept divisions as normative . . . and i want no part of that . . . this single component alone is in direct contrast to the ecumenical imperative Christ himself prayed that his adherents would possess " I . . . don't necessarily agree . . . is all theological division "bad"? You live and teach because of freedoms afforded by Luther and company that allow you to do so

post-protestant response:
there are several issues knotted up here . . . but william you began with what i believe is an over-generalization . . . if one theological case for division can be illustrated as ‘acceptable’ others must by necessity be ‘good’ too . .

the nature of this statement focuses on my thought that there is within scripture an *** ecumenical mandate *** . . . John 13:33-35 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” . . . John 17:10-12; John 17:21-23 . . . these are Christ own (arguably dying) words . . . Jesus is establishing a 'plumb-line' or 'trajectory' for HOW was are to behave in His absence . . . this 'new' command theme is then picked up again . . . paraphrased and re-emphasized decades later in the letters of john . . . 1 John 3:10-12; 1 John 4:11-13; 1 John 4:6-8; . . . then he ‘brings it up’ again in 2 John 1:4-6 . . . paul supports the thought in romans 13:7-9 . . . peter also stresses its importance in 1 Peter 1:21-23; . . . that's not to mention the numerous variations on this theme . . . like paul again in romans 12:9-11 'be devoted to one another' and so on . . . the early church was so committed to this practice that they were accused of homosexuality . . . (none of those accusations in modern evangelical circles! but we would be willing to testify before congress about homosexuals if asked!) . . . simply said: I believe that the ** ecumenical mandate ** is one of the primary themes of the nt church and the nt text . . .

William said:
I think caution should be exercised . . . You seem to reel against "Protestantism" because of the protestant tendency to dig and dig into scripture to find truth . . . . scripture says "Heaven and Earth shall pass a way but My word will not".

post-protestant response:
clearly, one of my original points was that . . . "I am VERY, VERY uncomfortable deconstructing something that someone perhaps walked to a stake to preserve . . .” as a matter of fact scotty mentioned in the comments that this too was a part of the larger story that we find ourselves in . . . if we’re intellectually honest the critics of christianity are embarrassingly correct . . . it is amazing the degree to which we have the uncanny knack for getting things so utterly wrong ‘in scripture’ . . . a few examples might be:

--> galileo who embraced copernican theory and as a result suffered at the hands of the those who also had ‘the word of the Lord’ . . . under torture forced to renounce copernican theories, and sentenced to life imprisonment . . . (that may falsely be interpreted as additional ‘catholic mistakes’) but . . .
--> the protestant versions of mistaken ‘biblical interpretations’ in support of
colonialism’s many forms including the ultimate massacre of an entire continent
of native american indians . . . ** heathens ** . . . was the unfortunate term
used to describe that people group . . .
--> the protestant churches in the american south’s reaction to the civil rights movement, and its nt justification, and the correction ultimately that originated outside the church with a Hindu yogi . . . Mahatma Gandhi . . . fortunately read, and understood by an african-american minister named martin luther king jr . . . clearly protestant christians have made HUGE mistakes too PROCLAIMING our (latest) interpretations of scripture . . . the truth is those ‘word of the Lord’’ statements don’t exist in an environment that supports the statement . . .

the second part of this statement is a little more difficult because it addresses the question of ultimately where authority belongs . . . and I haven’t honesty settled that entirely . . . but it seems clear that it is not . . . nuda scriptura (naked scripture) . . .

William said:
You . . . have brushed over the hard truths of the Roman Catholic Church - in Luther's time AND now. I wonder if you are seeing it through the "rose colored glasses" created by the fog of hundreds of years

post-protestant response:
there are some underling aspects of truth in your comment . . . I am intentional looking for the positive aspect from the catholic church (both in the eastern and the western traditions) . . . because i believe that they have a lot to teach those who are open . . . specifically their depth in spiritual disciplines . . . the only way that this logic can be consistent ultimately is if you believe that the catholic church has been so thoroughly corrupted that they/we are no longer a part of the historic christian church . . .

William said:
where also is the scripture supporting Mary as our Holy defender in Heaven?

post-protestant response:
i am not an 'authority' on roman catholicism . . . i worte earlier about the importance of intellectual honesty . . . that knife cuts two ways . . . I must confess that i too struggle with mariology . . . however the fact that 13 years after the reformation there are recorded prayers to Mary by martin luther challenges my thinking on this issue . . . but I still struggle . . .

William said:
Find the scripture supporting the Roman Catholic belief that only a priest may hear confession for the forgiveness of sins, and act as the "intermediary" between us and God.

post-protestant response:
I suspect that you may be over generalizing here again . . . the catholic church does not to my knowledge prohibit confession between adherents . . . and because it is organized around the concept of a hierarchical form of government that is ‘scripturally based’ . . . differently than you or i may interprete the passages but ‘scripturally based’ nevertheless . . . clearly acts 15; and 1 tim 3 illustrate an early forms of catholicism related to church structure . . . interpretation of the structure is another issue . . .

William said:
Find the physical object (Graven image) worship in scripture, and accepted by God?. The rosary. The cross with the body. The medallions. Holy water.

post-protestant response:
respectfully, i suspect that you might have adoration, veneration, and worship confused . . . (take my word for it our catholic brother DO NOT!!) . . . again i am by no means a spokesmen for roman catholicism . . . however the rosary is both the name of a devotional prayer and a chain of beads that became popular in the fifteen century . . . the rosary started out like ‘prayer beads’ from other religions as a systematic method of counting elements of prayer, the apostle’s creed, or the Our Father, or the hail mary prayers . . . originally the beads were advised for those considering the priesthood . . . it was a method to organize the devotional life . . . in my mind that is an exceptionally good thing . . . (fyi...the avg. time an american evangelical spends in prayer per week ~ 7-8 mins!! ~ barna) making the sign of the cross has been a tradition of the entire church has been around for almost as long as the bible has been around (pre-reformation) . . . take a look at this link for additional insights . . .

William said:
The truth is, Roman Catholicism became "Christianity, plus..."
plus virgin worship
plus non-married priests
plus object worship
plus gold-inlaid buildings with marble
plus only priests teaching scripture legally and having Bibles to do so.
plus Latin-only services
plus "blessed water" in bowls around the building.
plus priests mediating our confessions
plus celibate ministers who can't marry
plus the creation of "nuns"
plus the position of Pope
plus the infallibility of the Pope. (The irony here being their claim that Peter was their first Pope, and also infallible. Scripture SURELY doesn't indicate his infallibility. Far from.)
plus stigmata
plus Veronica's veil

post-protestant response:
I believe you have incorrectly concluded that modern evangelical worship services are in some way similar to ancient nt worship services . . . the fact is that both the tradition and scriptural evidence for a sacramental liturgy is far superior to the modern initiated ‘worship and praise’ services that focus more on entertainment and not holy communion and just as a point of clearification . . . that’s a wholesale version of ‘christianity plus’ . . .

it seems that you also may have concluded that luther (and the other reformers) efforts were 'right' . . . (i'm not convinced) . . . that is a hotly debated point in modern theological circles with excellent arguments on both sides . . . the spirit of passages like mat 18 might be an intra-textual argument against it . . . particularly when the church organization is a part of the problem . . . it sounds as if your belief system requires that my belief system conforms . . . that’s a pretty significant problem (in my opinion) . . . because it assumes that ‘right belief’ (dogma) is necessary for salvation . . . (if God's voice can be heard through general revelation within creation and salvation is not provided for . . . that doesn't makes sense and it is unjust) . . . the lure and promise of theological uniformity does not by necessity guarantee genuine unity or oneness . . . the truth is I get confused too from time to time with some of this stuff . . . but i'm really am sorry many pages of questions are just to much volume to process at this point for me sorry . . . keep looking . . . perhaps we can get some of the other bloggers to comment . . . and help us through these questions . . .??

peace : : :

::: trouble: the servant of our own souls :::

2005-01-05T13:20:00.000-05:00

I haven’t posted anything for a while for 3 reasons . . . (1) the number of sites that have information, videos, and pictures regarding the disaster are a little mind boggling to me . . . and make me feel like a social voyeur . . . i have included these comments by nt wright because it is more centrally focused on perspectives than titillation . . . (2) I have really been struggling mentally with the blog below and I wanted to get Honest feedback for some of the folks that visit this site every now and again . . . thanks for your comments . . . i am planning on a follow up article regarding another method assuming that propositional/systematic theologies are not acceptable going forward . . . what then?? (3) I have somewhat unexpectedly run into some physical problems . . . I have myasthenia gravis and I am experiencing some fairly significant disruption to the ‘normal’ routines of my life . . . apparently after a disruption at work yesterday and 6 hours in the emergency room i saw my neurologist today and he is suggesting that I have a procedure called plasma-pheresis . . . the series of treatments are going to be done locally at the Dialysis Clinic, Inc. . . . to say the least i am not to excited about doing this . . . because after this process is over i should be ready for the thymus removal/surgery . . . i'm going to be off work ramping into this . . .??? pray for me . . .

as you can see i have also included the nt wright comments on disaster . . .

Does God have a responsibility to stop earthquakes and tidal waves? The story of Jesus raises much subtler questions
By: NT Wright
The ancient Jewish writers saw the sea as evil. It floods and destroys the world. It
stands between the Israelites and freedom. It rages horribly; monsters come out
of it. There is a hint that God had to overcome the dark primal waters in order
to create the world in the first place.
Ancient symbols spring into unwelcome new life. The murderous mountain of water that charged across the Indian Ocean on Boxing Day rivals the Lisbon earthquake of 1755 in its deadly power. Lisbon caused a sea-change in the Enlightenment itself: before it, Bishop Butler could gaze at the natural world and infer Christian theology, but Lisbon drove a wedge between God and the world, giving fresh impetus to the idea of God as an absentee landlord and then, not long after, a mere absentee. Since then, it has been assumed that "God" has a responsibility to stop things like earthquakes and tidal waves; if He doesn't, they constitute a standing disproof. What's the point in saying "The heavens declare the glory of God", if tidal waves declare His incompetence? Western culture hasn't advanced much beyond that sterile stand-off. This week's horror won't change it any more than did the man-made nightmare of 11 September 2001.

People today assume that a "religious" view of life must address "the problem of evil", the toughest part of which is so-called "natural evil". Evil isn't as bad as it seems, say some; or it's all someone's fault (or, with natural evil, Satan's fault); or it offers a chance for greater moral virtue (courage, and so on). One major tsunami does to theories like that what it does to buildings and people: it crushes them to
matchwood.
In a culture heavily influenced by Judaism and Christianity, one might have hoped that the Bible would play a part in the discussion. People seem to assume that it's irrelevant. The general view is that the Bible offers an escape from the world into a personal religion. But that view is itself the result of the Enlightenment's eductionism.

The Bible itself resists such treatment. It constantly acknowledges evil - "human" and "natural" alike - as a terrible reality. It doesn't try to minimise it, to explain that good will come of it, or to blame someone (reactions which correspond uncomfortably closely to the excuses offered by immoral or warmongering politicians). It tells a story about the Creator's plan to put the world to rights, a plan which involves a people who are themselves part of the problem as well as the bearers of the solution.

That people, the family of Israel, are brought through the sea to the promised land, despite grumbling on the way. Through long years of Babylonian exile, they cry out for a new Exodus, for their God again to overrule the mighty waters from which came the monsters of pagan empire. This is the people whose prophets tell of God's intention to deal with evil itself, so that the wolf and the lamb would lie down together, and the earth be awash with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. The healing of creation will result from the Servant of the Lord going down to the depths, taking evil's weight on to himself, exhausting its power.
When the early Christians wrote about Jesus, this was the story they believed themselves to be telling. They didn't see him as simply a teacher, a moral example, or even as one who saved people from a doomed world. They told his story as the point where the dark forces of chaos converged, in the cynical politics of Herod and Pilate, the bitter fanaticism of the Pharisees, the wild shrieks of diseased souls, the
sudden storms on the lake. They invite us to see his death on the analogy of
Jonah's being thrown into the sea, there to be swallowed by the monster called
Death. They insist that in this death God has taken upon Himself the full force
of the world's evil. As a sign of that, the final book of the Bible declares that in the new world, now already begun with his resurrection, there will be no
more sea.
Saying this precisely does not give Christian theology an easy explanation ("Oh, that's all right then") for the continuing presence of evil in the world. On the contrary, it tells a story about Jesus's own sense of abandonment, and thereby encourages us to embrace the same sense of helpless involvement in the sorrow of the world, as the means by which the world is to be healed. Those who work for justice, reconciliation and peace will know that sense, and perhaps, occasionally, that healing. This isn't the kind of answer that the Enlightenment wanted. But maybe, as we launch into the deep waters of another new year, it is the kind of vocation we ought to embrace in place of shallow analysis and shrill reaction.

Tom Wright is the Bishop of Durham

the peace of Christ be with you : : :

: : : the problems with believing : : :

2004-12-30T14:56:00.000-05:00

This is one of my more difficult blogs ever . . . (forgive me for its length I am still in process!) I have not blogged this week 'real-time' because I have been working on . . . wordsmithing . . . etc. . . . I needed to 'put to paper' some thoughts that I have been wading through and answer a question regarding the veracity of the virgin birth started over at area 215. . . this mental food fight became an apex for me and forced me to organize the thoughts that have been 'crock-potting' inside of my head since just before fall of this year . . . hopefully I will be able to present a authentic post protestant thought for a change . . .

early in my christian experience my interests were primarily relational . . . eventually my experience began leading to an emphasis on doctrine and even early on the doctrines tended to create relational cracks . . . doctrine began subtly separating those around me, and at times isolated me from others . . . similarly it divided members of the early church and its propensities to division persists with members of the modern church . . . particularly within evangelical protestantism . . . so that I'm not totally misunderstood . . . christian doctrine has been an indispensable learning and teaching aid for me personally. . . which leads me to the first of several theological dilemmas I find myself facing . . . recently the movment away from sola scriptura has not been without great concern to me . . . thanks to a wise byzantine seminary professor and a good roman catholic friend that is wise beyond his years . . . I am migrating away from that . . .

there are essentially 3 schools of thought regarding the place that tradition has within the church . . . (1) tradition maintains that the scriptures we possess today have 'all sufficiency' of truth within themselves for salvation and right living to be found . . . (2) a two source notion whereby christian revelation is only partly contained in the text, with another necessary part wedged in the oral traditions of the apostles passed down through their disciples (3) and finally, the Holy Spirit abides within the church at large giving inspiration and illumination . . . specifically being manifested with the popes and the various councils and these 'findings' are therefore binding on their adherents . . . it seems reasonable to me from this perspective that that much (two-thirds in fact) of the nt (specifically the epistles) were written as 'supplements' to a theology which had already been orally deposited . . . and this seems to be assumed by the authors themselves . . . it seems clear that these epistles were never intended to be a template or manual for rationalistic theology as we use it today . . . therefore my conclusion is that authority rest with scripture and at a minimum somewhere else . . . pehaps more later . . .???

one of the first problems is that if I am intellectually honest I must also admit that specifically the pastoral epistles appear on one hand to assume the existence of set or fixed church order (liturgy) . . . 2 peter refers to paul's letters as scripture . . . and 1 john tells us that without 'right belief' . . . christian love and brotherly fellowship is impossible (is that because right belief directs right attitudes? and if you have right attitudes is right belief not necessary? perhaps??) . . . if these assumptions are true it 'appears' as though the nt itself contains many of the 'essential' elements of early catholicism . . . (liturgy, scripture, community) . . . many roman catholic scholars in reaction to protestantism's disproportionate dependence on Sola (Solo) Scriptura point to this as 'evidence' for a more balanced view that tradition does play in our ecclesiastical formation . . . not to mention the difficulties between whether the canon was 'recognized' by men as God inspired or if the church, acting through its bishops, and councils conferred approval upon the canon . . . back-and-forth-back-and-forth . . .

I'm coming to the conclusion that our faith does not adequately 'fit' in propositional language . . . for an example innocuous propositions like "God is Love", can inadvertently be misinterpreted to mean that because God is Love . . . God is unable to punish via eternal damnation . . . intrinsic to the proposition itself is a contradiction . . . these propositional statements are the beginning of another problem I am groping through. . . they are simply inadequate communication devises primarily because of the propensities to misinterpretations, offenses and deeply seated divisions . . .

clearer still is that the nt canon was written in a pre-critical environment . . . methods of interpretation using modern insights into the nature of history, language, culture, and literature were not used. . . and it seems self evident that if 'right-belief' is necessary to love and fellowship appropriately then propositional statements could theoretically be arranged to 'distill' these highlights in a systematic fashion that is coherent, comprehensive, and consistent . . . I sincerely believe that the catholic church (east and west) has a lot of substance to contribute to the overall conversation between believers on both issues of orthodoxy and orthropraxy . . . which leads me to my next problem and that is the lack of ecclesial unity . . . or ecumenical cooperation

because protestants find their ultimate source of authority within the 'storehouse' of scripture . . . principles, truth propositions, and statements of faith are endlessly pursued (ad nauseum) and this pursuit is that the very foundation of protestantism and its propensities particularly within modern evangelicalism are dominated by a theological momentum aimed at greater separation, conflict and divisions which are (silently) considered 'necessary evils' administered for the perceived greater good . . . this approach has the unspoken effect of leaving our sisters and brothers at that altar . . . the altar of sacrifice . . . simply for what we believe to be true . . . and in the name of some kind of good . . . we sacrifice our fellowship and accept divisions as normative . . . and I want no part of that . . . this single component alone is in direct contrast to the ecumenical imperative Christ himself prayed that his adherents would possess . . . unity . . . that we would be one as He and the Father are One . . . and the 'source code' for these divisions seems to squarely fit propositional theology . . .

much like its adherences 'the church' (protestant, catholic and orthodoxy) goes through cyclical periods of corruption and renewal . . . it is so captivating (but sad) that my own protestant brothers so easily point out the splinters in our catholic brother's theologically eye . . . while (apparently) being completely content with our own protestant variations on 'non-traditional' (and at times down right heretical) theology, the motivating force here is intrinsic to protestantism itself . . . specifically, it the endless pursuit of theological purity, and unfortunately this driving force for doctrinal purity is pursued at most any cost including the expense of the ecumenical imperative prayed for by Christ himself and re-emphasized by john in john 13:34-35; 17:20-22; 1 john 4:20-21 . . . in my mind the destructive character of propositional theology is so negative that it negates it as a possibility to either develop or pursue for me going forward . . . (that is very significant for me because I don't know what the rest of the story holds . . .??)

the movements of theological deconstruction have been so extensive that every time I mentally 'retrench' into what I think is a safe position I find that I have not retrenched deeply enough . . . and the theological deconstruction persists making it extremely difficult to find a firm 'terra-theologica' for the most part everything at this point is uncomfortably fluid . . . what is extremely uncomfortable about the entire deconstruction process is what I might describe as potentials of inherent arrogance within the deconstruction process or at least my fear of it . . . these words that I am 'putting to paper' are by no means original to me and I am simply distributing what I have already digested in readings other men's thoughts but still . . . who the hell am I (or anybody else for that matter) to deconstruct what the early church constructed . . . if we are not accepting of the earliest theological deposits made within the patristic periods that clearly communicates a level of distrust on behalf of the deconstructist as it relates to their judgments . . . and I am VERY, VERY uncomfortable deconstructing something that someone perhaps walked to a stake to preserve . . . thus the logical conclusion toward roman catholicism . . .

now for the question that brought me to write this epic . . . the doctrine of the virgin birth . . .do I believe in a virgin birth?????????

the virgin birth and its veracity is as important as the issue of messiahship was to the jews (and christians) of the first century . . . at the end of the day it is an issue of interpretation . . . and interpretation is primarily determined by epistemological points of origination . . . I simply believe in the story contained within scripture . . . a major component of that story is that a virgin birth a Son . . . is it myth or is it truth . . . that only matters if propositional theology is pursued . . . if you approach the issue as a story it's literal or allegorical nature become inconsequential and non-toxic . . . propositional theology has little ultimate interest in connecting or developing the average worshipping congregation . . .

YES, I believe in the wonderful story of Jesus . . . . and a virgin birth is very much a part of that story . . .

peace : : :

: : : just another monday : : :

2004-12-27T13:58:00.000-05:00

There is a 2 inch layer of snow across the yard this morning . . . jonathan is still asleep, and linda just left for the store . . . I go a book entitled everyman’s Talmud for christmas . . . it is really good . . . it is sort of like reading plato or socrates again . . . it has a fundamental depth (a kind of starting point) that I really appreciate . . . excellent stuff and highly recommended . . . I think that it has already become a reference point for me . . . this year the christmas season was a lot less about gifts and a whole lot more about the advent anticipation . . . I wonder if he will come today?

As you may know from reading my blog, I have a pretty good job but recently I have growing questions about staying there . . . my recent reading in the talmud has again confirmed my initial suspicions about ‘professional ministry’ . . . according to the talmud:

‘it is a man’s duty to work, not only to earn his livelihood, but likewise
to contribute his quota to the maintenance of the social order . . . an
excellent thing is the study of torah combined with some worldly occupation, for
the labor demanded by them both makes sin to be forgotten. All study of the
torah without work must in the end be futile and become the cause of sin . .
.’

I have been reading and thinking a lot about the issue of absolutes . . . and thanks to nt wright I see now like never before that the concept of absolutes is fundamentally Hellenistic and not Hebrew . . . consequently the ideas such as eden being “perfect” before the fall is not by logically necessity the way that God’s people have always viewed it . . . the bible says that creation was good . . . not perfect . . . and clearly the neo-platonism of people like augustine bonded this philosophical/theological approach to what was the newly forming church . . . this bonding is both accepted and taken for granted from the modern evangelical perspective . . . and to be honest I am STILL not sure how to think about these things . . . it was interesting to read how thought has evolved over time . . . from a period when there was simply a thesis purported . . . a thought discussed and suggested . . . and over time the collective thoughts of civilization discovered an anti-thesis to the previously purported thesis . . . its opposite . . . but the world is no longer that simple . . . the world is no longer . . . balck and white . . . on-off . . . thesis and anti-thesis today we still enjoy thesis and anti-thesis . . . but synthesis complicates our lives . . . it is a combination of those thoughts . . . hybrid thoughts . . . added complexity . . . therefore it is from this 3rd option that I am considering the problems with absolutes . . . the most difficult aspect of this thought is the unknown mental trajectory that this presents . . . regardless . . . God is larger than this issue . . .

christmas day :::

2004-12-25T19:40:00.000-05:00

football, blog surfing, and listening to my evenescence cd newly burned onto my (old) ipod . . .

i have been reading and surfing blogs, napping, and watching football . . . jonathan is playing his new nintendo ds . . . my mother and her husband bill are visiting with us for the weekend . . . its always good to have them visit . . . we have so little time with those we really love because life is so very short . . . and then again it can be very long as well . . .

the advent candles have been burning for a couple of hours . . . we are going to go into the living room in a little while and pray through the daily office together . . .

i saw this cartoon and well . . . i actually thought of myself . . . (much truth is said in jest!)

peace : : :

::: mERRY cHRISTMAS :::

2004-12-23T15:37:00.000-05:00

this is likely the last time i will blog between now and Christmas day . . . my mom just got to the house and jonathan called linda and I at the store to let us know that we need to come home . . . I’ve been working at the store most of the day today . . . it has been busy . . . primarily (and uncharacteristically) predominately men shopping . . . lots of conversation among the 'ladies' that work at the store . . . regarding the motives of these male shoppers . . . perhaps I’ve mis-spoke and I should say the motivation that brought them into our store later in the week rather than earlier in the season . . . it is apparently the consensus of the ladies that these men are simply . . . procrastinators . . . and I quote: 'they have put off what could have been done much earlier . . .' and like all good post-modern issues there is the thesis, it opposite 'anti-thesis' . . . but of course being the radically type i explained . . . that the idea that these men had 'put off' Christmas shopping (negatively speaking was only one view of what was actually taking place . . . the post-modern 'synthesis' or perspective might be that these men merely enjoy giving gifts that are as FRESH as possible . . . not wanting to give their loved ones gifts that are aged in any way . . . or at least that's the way i prefer to think about it . . .

have a wonderful time discussion, eating, communion, and just plain ol' sharing . . . with the people that God has so graciously given you . . . as gifts . . . in and of themselves . . . without the presents . . . without the commercial wrapping paper . . . but gifts nonetheless . . .

and peace : : :

: : : forgive me : : :

2004-12-21T08:49:00.000-05:00

i got up early this morning and read for some time . . . it was good for me . . . i have several books going right now . . . the 'theological recalibration' is fairly significant at this point in my journey . . . i am still pretty fearful of the effects of this change . . . but more fearful of the effects of not morphing . . . the problems associated with Absolute Truth has been very thought provoking . . . i have never considered some of its problems . . . and the different vantage point is insightful but unsettling at the same time . . . i have also been struggling through the issues of the ecumenical imperative . . . which poses a real problem related to authority this in turn creates doctrinal fragmentation which seems intrinic to modern protestantism . . . which fosters relational fragmentation . . . which completely compromises Christ's own prayer for ecclesial unity and oneness . . . clearly john's words later in the nt defining WHAT a follower of Christ is like cements and frames the importance of Christ prayer for unity . . . at a very basic level this is HIGHLY distrubing to me (i know i have blogged these passages before but i can't get rid of the problem they create mentally) . . . i see my own contributions here as highly devisive and not obedient to the ecumintial imparative . . . i am attempting repentance in this . . . Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy . . .

but this is not my only sin that I need to ask forgiveness for . . . my son, jonathan, linda, and i have a christmas tradtion . . . we often visit heinz hall at this time of the year to enjoy the fine work performed by the Pittsburgh symphony . . . it is always so beautifully done . . . anyway this year we had an extra ticket and jonathan invited a female guest to join us . . . jonathan has never had a 'girl friend' and he still doesn’t but he wants to become friends with a girl without it being weird or awkward . . . his boy scouting experience has surrounded him primarily with males . . . and he’s becoming increasing interested with girls . . . and that is a good thing . . . anyway, he invited the daughter of his music teacher . . . she is older than jonathan by about 3 years . . . and she came with us . . . not as a girl friend but as a friend who is simply a girl . . . he likes that she is interested (and talented) in music like he is . . . she is a wonderful person . . . very honest theologically/philosophically . . . she does not delineate friends as ‘saved and unsaved’ . . . she sees beyond the façade of modernism’s response to cultural issues . . . and she appears to genuine have an interest in spiritual things but not that much interest in the church . . . as a family we are extremely disorganized at times, a sort of moving mess . . . assembled chaos (but fun loving) . . . we all liked her too . . . and that’s sort of the problem . . . jonathan has specific relational weaknesses that he is working on . . . weaknesses that are not simply developed and I had in mind that I should “help” him make the environment fun for his guest . . . but unfortunately I got in the way . . . I only know this because loveable linda help me see it ( I am grateful for her insight!) . . . I felt horrible after realizing that I dominated to much . . . last night I went to jonathan and apologized and he sort of minimized the whole thing . . . telling me I ‘freak out over every little thing . . . its no big deal dad really’ . . . but I feel badly . . . my intentions were to be helpful but instead I interfered . . . Lord have mercy . . . I am grateful for a family that is forgiving . . . but specifically for a son who is forgiving . . .

peace : : :

UPDATE: i spoke briefly with jonathan again . . . affirming my apology . . . and realized that my personality is one that 'needs to make everyone comfortable' . . . i often carry the conversation in a social setting to assure everyone is okay . . . i am a 'fixer' by natural bent . . . that has both good and bad qualities associated with it . . . this just happens to be one of the bad . . .

: : : a righteous man considering divorce as an option : : :

2004-12-20T18:15:00.000-05:00

an interesting thought over at postmodern pilgrim . . . joseph is the forgotten father . . . i mentioned to him that for the first time i had seen joseph as a righteous man . . . in a difficult situation as it relates to martial issues and his logical course of action, at least initially was the consideration of divorce . . . that is not intuitive logically given the current thoughts around divorce and abortion in the american christian sub-culture . . . ny point here is that we can see a man who is righteous and devout considering, realistically considering a divorce as an option . . . i had not seen that in quite that way before . . .

beck and eric keck have a great thing going . . . beth has a dynamic voice and eric is exteremely supportive of her talent . . . and to that end eric was kind enough to provide a track off of her cd . . . hopeful if i can either get together with either of them or if i can get a paypal problem resolved maybe i can enjoy the REST of the cd . . . take a listen . . . fresh and organic . .

peace : : :

: : : "If anyone says, “I love God,” : : :

2004-12-15T15:19:00.000-05:00

This past Sunday the employees at the store got together and we all attempted to do something nice for a couple of people in the community . . .

We had a little meeting at the store the prior week to discuss what we could do, how, etc . . . one of the ladies that works at the store has a mother living in a nursing home nearby . . . we all decided that a visit there would be good . . . some singing . . . and ‘snacky, wackys’ . . . visiting . . . maybe a warm blanket –give-away-contest sort of thing . . . by drawing a name out of a hat or something like that a random drawing of some type . . . anyway that was all progressing well until we discovered that someone else had already booked time at the center and we would not be able to visit until the week AFTER Christmas . . .

in parallel to that visitation we were also planning to get some groceries for a couple of families . . . so we had another little meeting and it was suggested that we all just go shopping together on Sunday and take the groceries to the families . . . well nothing is without event . . . there wasn’t an immediate problem but 2 days after the meeting 2 ladies who are covenanters announced that they couldn’t go shopping on Sunday because they are strict Sabbatarians . . . the FULL BLOWN THING: not using musical instruments in the Sunday morning worship services , no work on Sunday . . . they do not cut the grass, or catch up on little chores around the house . . . and for those of you sitting at the front of the class . . . yes! That also means they don’t go shopping for groceries either . . .

This presented a little situation for us . . . as you can imagine retailers are really stressed out at this point in the year . . . they are working long and many additional hours because of the higher volumes of business during the Christmas holiday . . . so time is at a premium . . . we got through it someone volunteered and did the shopping required . . .we took the food to the families in question and a good time was had by all . . . I didn’t say anything to them however I’ve really struggled with this . . . it has been really difficult for me to get beyond this mentally. . .

Here’s the problem: these particular ladies are not ‘theologically inclined’ so that’s not the issue . . . it is the fact that within the modern theological construct as a whole the default position for decision-making is typically about persevering some level of PRECEIVED doctrinal purity . . . that’s what got in the way . . . an attempt by christians to protect abstract doctrine over protecting real people . . . that sucks as a epistemological starting point for ANY religious effort . . .at least that’s the way i am

This is a KEY ISSUE in my mind as the church begins to emerge . . . this type of tension that is created by the protestant church is in my mind as socially offensive as indulgence were once viewed by protestants themselves . . . this is a fundamental difference between the ec and the ic at the most basic level . . . specifically the ic is ‘motivated’ by doctrinal purity and the ec is attempting to be motivated by relational aspects of living out faith . . . ‘people are always more important than things’ . . . for me that includes abstract things like written articles or tenets of faith . . . this insatiable desire for doctrinal purity on behalf of the ic also has other symptoms . . . it has created a matrix of division within the protestant church as a whole . . . the reformers clearly were diverse theologically and amazingly enough ‘bonded’ on what they disagreed with not on a statement of unity . . . as a result this definition, refinement, analysis, protect doctrinal positions, divide and re-establish anew with great doctrinal exactness is a part of the protestant church’s organic DNA . . . the faulty conclusion or end point therefore is that Protestantism under it current circumstances cannot (logically) express a truly ecumenical heart . . . which is in direct contradiction to Jesus own (arguably dying declaration):

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love
one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

clearly, these passages imply a complex unity as pictured in the Trinity . . . the ecumenical mandate is not possible under the current 'rules of engagement' within reformed-protestantism . . . some have suggested that given recent growth within the 'southern hemisphere church' another post (reformation) protestant name is required because both the protest is over and the issues surrounding the reformation are not the pressing issues of today's church . . . that's not to mention the 'seal' that john put on this whole thing . . . it solidified it with greater reinforcement making it part of 'a definition' of what it meant to be a follower of Christ, he explains that:

"If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who
does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not
seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his
brother."

: : : peace !!

: : : robert mondovi's contribution to emergent : : :

2004-12-13T11:11:00.000-05:00

i got up on sunday morning at 4:09 am . . . i went to the track and walked/ran alternating back and forth for an hour and a half . . . EXCELLENT work out . . . when i came home we did not 'go to church' yesterday . . . instead we opted to celebrate communion together at home ... around a warm, freshly baked loaf, and a watered down chalice of mondovi . . . IT WAS OUTSTANDING . . . very liturgical . . . we used the liturgical format found in the book of common prayer . . . the feelings of intimacy and closeness were vivid and unanticipated honestly . . . linda likes the ‘let’s stay at home and be church ourselves’ part of the emergent message . . . quite frankly other components concern her . . . and rightfully they should . . . they concern me to . . . I am just more of a risk taker than she is . . . we all discussed how ‘industrial’ feeling processional communion is compared to this setting . . . I have never considered that as deeply as we experienced it this weekend . . . there is typically so much going on and so many distractions in larger gatherings it is sort of a hot bed for distractions . . . and for an ‘adhd’ type that’s not a good thing . . . it is almost as though it is seemingly designed to aggravate—if not generate—attention deficit disorder . . . movement shuffling, talking, books being put into place, guys in the back moving around and getting ready for something else that’s next . . . never mind what's going on NOW . . .

several folks from the store gathered together on sunday to take food to some people around town that was good . . . very good thing . . .

'the well-feed person and the hungry one do not see the
same thing when they look upon a loaf of bread' rumi

this weekend I did a TON of reading . . . hours upon hours which is extremely satisfying but rarely possible . . . I have about 9 really solid books that I am working through . . . I athey are really helping me understand many of the issues related to the postmodernism problem matrix like never before . . . many of the things rumored on blogs, conferences, and articles from places like the ooze only gave me a taste . . . but this more detailed format of ‘deep diving’ has really helped me coming up with clearer explanations of the problems in a language that was articulated in such a way that it has become much clearer for me . . . part of that reading included the concluding chapters on brian’s book the story that we find ourselves in . . . kerry died this weekend, that was very sad . . . and I made the decision to close the book temporarily and pick up he concluding chapters over the christmas holiday since that is the book’s setting as it concludes . . .

::: peace

::: here i go AGAIN :::

2004-12-10T13:20:00.000-05:00

i am sort of afraid to blog my real thoughts today . . . i am afraid of being misunderstood . . . that somehow my comments will sound self serving or arrogant in some way . . .

for the first time, perhaps ever i feel as though i am obeying God (directional and incidentally) at a level i have not been previously willing to do . . . it is not as though i've been asked to do something tremendously difficult its more about the proper alignment of multiple facets of following . . . i am losing weight consistently, i am exercising consistently, i am praying/reading with my family consistently, i have felt 'prompted' to walk away from bible reading and focus more on poetry, art, music, and prayer and silent reflections . . . the candle of presence has become more representative of my relationship with God than the logical constructs of the past . . . i'm fairly deep into the anticipated 'adjustment' that sort of retrofitting requires . . . and its working into aspects of my spiritual life i had not anticipated . . . the conversations with brian have helped more than I can express . . .my wife and my son seem to be at peace with themselves and with our family life . . . these are all good things . . . blessings that i am grateful for . . .

I have been going through a lot of emotional unrest at work and after ‘mind-mapping’ the issues of work-ministry-money-health care-college . . . I am sort of looking at myself and recognizing my love of the struggle . . . it helps me feel alive . . . it lets me know I am alive . . it sort of like a chemically induced helper. . .several friends are experiences gigantic swings in household revenue, the stress associated with change that sort of thing and for several years I have maintained a ‘cruising altitude’ professionally and my own inherent fear of being idle or ‘at ease’ is negatively effecting my view of the real status and the real direction God wants for my family and me . . . these are probably just riddles to readers . . . I don’t care that was my chance to really pray (confess) . . . with a deeper level of honesty . . .

i am typically viewed as having an intense personality . . . the obsessive-compulsive nature of my personality lends its self (naturally) toward wild swings of various kinds of extremes . . . that seems tempered right now . . . i have sort of always wanted to live as plato described . . . with one foot in life and another foot in the grave . . . that sort of gets me into trouble from time to time . . . somehow i manage to offend people with that . . . it sort of brings out a morbid side of my personality i guess , , , so with that said . . . the words below have been important to me recently . . . the music has again been 'speaking to me' like when i was a kid . . . full of meaning and still fuller localized interpretation that helped in this journey . . .

Here I go Again . . . (Casting Crowns)

Father, hear my prayer
I need the perfect words
Words that he will hear
And know they're straight from You
I don't know what to say
I only know it hurts
To see my only friend slowly fade away

Chorus:
So maybe this time I'll speak the words of life
With Your fire in my eyes
But that old familiar fear is tearin' at my words
What am I so afraid of?
'Cause here I go againTalkin' 'bout the rain
And mullin' over things that won't live past today
And as I dance around the truthTime is not his friend
This might be my last chance to tell him that You love Him
But here I go again
Here I go again
Lord, You love him so
You gave Your only Son
If he will just believe
He will never die
But how then will he know
What he has never heard?
Lord he has never seen mirrored in my life

Chorus:
But here I go again
Here I go, here I go

Chorus:
This might be my last chance To tell him that You love him
This might be my last chance To tell him that You love him
You love him, You love him
What am I so afraid
What am I so afraid
What am I so afraid of?
How then will he know
What he has never heard?

may the peace of Christ be with you ::::

::: would you like mcfries with that eucharistic meal? :::

2004-12-09T10:17:00.000-05:00

no disrecept intented with that title . . . its just that companies like mcdonald's, coca cola, at&t, etc . . . have done a remarkable job at 'corporate branding' . . . or corporate identity . . . when i think mcdonald's i think wonderfully thin, salty french fries . . .

i suspect that as most boys grow up more dislike there own hand writing than admire their own hand writing . . . given the physically advantages that women/girls have with musle development in those formative years it is little wonder that their hand writing is is less childish at adolescence than their male counter parts thus the feelings of inadequacy . . . obviously some of those feelings are legitimate given those early muscular advantages . . . I sort of feel the same way about my own version of personalized version of how I write my life . . . how I live out my faith . . . how I personalize my (Christianity) Christ-like-ness (or its lack) . . . christian branding if you will . . . what is it? . . . what is the signature of my life? What is my ‘christ-like’ distinction? (Ouch!) Does that facet even exist? What about in the collective church? What makes her different? . . . most importantly what is my signature as a follower? . . .

Just for the record: I hate this line of questioning . . . I got up early again this morning and these are the types of issues that I am wadding through . . . I read this and it pricked me when I personalized it:

“When we reflect on the history of the Church, are we not bound to confess that she has failed to follow the example of her founder? All to often she has worn the robes of the ruler, not the apron of the servant. Even in our own day it can hardly be said that the ‘brand-image’ of the Church is of a society united in love for Jesus, and devoted to selfless service of others.” Michael Green, Called to Serve

what does the ‘hand writing’ of my (spiritual) life look like . . . in more contemporary business terms what is our/my branding . . . what am I known for (being an asshole or an asset relationally) . . . service? (requiring maintenance or providing reassurances to those God has given me?) . . . helps? (does my spirit help or hinder others?) . . . openness? (to what degree have I turned others away from Him? Or am I approachable?) . . . dare i say it . . . do I REALLY love? . . .

the short answer is . . . NO . . .

sadly, that is not my branding/signature or what I am known for . . . what make me really focus on this is my older brother . . . he is not a ‘professing’ believer and due to some recent events I’m not sure ‘where he is’ . . . over the years however I have watched his interests increase from disdain to what appears as mere observations at a distance . . . but his personality and his feelings are is so guarded that he has not been willing to engage in any level of meaningful conversation regarding his feelings or thoughts about Christ . . . he does regularly however point out his misgivings about the organized church . . . and his personal struggles and indirectly implies some regret with his parenting style of his now adult children . . .

somewhat recently his father-in-law died and his death was somehow a testimony to a level of assurance that many believers posses . . . according to my brother this man summonsed all 14 of his children who congregated around his bed side with their husbands, wives and children . . . 67 in all !! . . .he lovingly spoke to each of them for hours . . . and then lastly he addressed his loving wife of 55 years . . . and he then simply surrendered his life here in exchange for his life with Christ . . . on the other side . . . my brother saw the ‘branding’ of this unrehearse-able reality and responded with amazement . . . it was genuine, and not fake-able . . . my brother mused in a rare moment of vulnerability . . . “how could he be so sure where he was going . . .”

these kinds of thoughts scare me . . . I am not sure what my branding is or perhaps even worse I’m fearful that I know and I don’t like the branding . . . I feel like I’m knowledgeable about spiritual things, spiritual people, and even spiritual pursuits . . . but I don’t FEEL very spiritual . . . it’s not my branding . . . that’s for sure . . .

"If Jesus was half the revolutionary you claim, how come he is now represented by one of the most conservative, status-quo institutions on the planet?" Steve Chalke , The Lost Message of Jesus

:::peace

::: clay aiken's is a homosexual :::

2004-12-08T13:45:00.000-05:00

'clay akins is a homosexual' WHAT? . . . WHAT DID YOU SAY? :::: I knew that I had misunderstood . . . that's what started it all . . .

linda and i were working at the store today and an employee was up front telling several other employees that 'our store shouldn't be ‘supporting’ someone like clay akins . . . because clay aiken's is a homosexual . . .

'i immediately went up front . . . like a surfer hoping to catch the next big wave of this conversation . . . as i walked up into the conversation i asked . . . 'so help me ‘get it’ what difference would it make if clay is a homosexual, i’m not convinced that he is but so what if he is?' everyone looked at me like i myself was coming out of the closet . . . (customers were listening now as our conversation began to ‘bleeding over’ so that others in the store could hear honestly I had not considered that but found myself being faced with the issue that my own personal feelings about this issue were about to become more public, so I guess I was sort of ‘coming out’ myself to some degree) . . . i pushed through the disbelief on their faces . . . and asked the question again . . . ‘I don’t get it, what difference would it make if he is a homosexual?’ . . . that's when the difficulties began . . .

'well we're a christian bookstore (she said that not me! we are merely a bookstore and several christians happen to work there!) . . . she continued: ‘we shouldn’t support THAT kind of thing' . . . with a question mark on my face I asked: ‘support homosexuality? wait I get really confused easily . . . i thought that we were talking about selling cd’s . . . support homosexuality by selling cd's?? . . .

i don't get it . . . how is it that we could support homosexuality by selling a guys cd's??' . . . ‘as a christian bookstore we need to STAND FOR CERTAIN THINGS . . . REALLY? I asked (wondering how well I would be able to control the turbocharger in my head that was quickly cycling up . . . and what is it that we would be standing for by not selling his cd’s . . . (slightly I pressed the point) . . . its about what we will ENDORSE and what we WON’T ENDORSE . . . (i think to himself holy crap this is becoming a full fledged conversation about God right here is river city!!) . . .

okay so you feel that if we sell his cd that’s an endorsement?? . . . (with a finger pointed at me . . . now in assurance . . . let me tell you this if ‘provident, finds out he’s a homosexual they won’t even carry his cd’s any more’ . . . so let me get this straight . . . if they’re morons does that mean we need to be morons (thinking of my mother’s answer to me when I was a teenager something about a bridge and jumping off) . . .

like I said . . . what difference would it make if he is homosexual?. . . no answer . . . ‘look’ (I said it with as much understanding I could put into a voice infliction) . . . ‘did you ever see the movie fried green tomatoes??’ ‘remember in the movie that guy who keep buy the woman’s chairs?’ What . . . you know in the movie where the guy really liked that woman who owned the little shop and she made chairs . . . he keep going to her shop and buying the chairs she had hand made and sold in the shop . . . my point is they lived in this sleepy little burg and he bought EVERY chair . . . at some point in the movie the woman discovers that he had them all stored at his house, hundreds of them, and he says a line something like this . . . it really doesn’t matter to me what you made I’d buy anything you were selling . . . I love you. . . (and they lived happily ever after – chick flick can you tell)

that’s my attitude toward homosexuals OR ANYONE ELSE for that matter . . . it is really one of the worse lies every told to church seating people . . . ‘we’re on the bus and (here’s the used car salesman’s sch-peel . . .) you could be too all you need to do is ____________’ . . . and then the groups that talk more saved-by-grace-alone talk more about ‘to-do’s’ than anyone else within the boundary’s of christiandom . . . (stuff that people NEED to do ‘if’ they are christians) . . .

okay . . . in my little opinion that’s where the really deep dung starts . . . and the proverbial hip-waders come in handy . . . who do WE think that we are tell anyone anything about who’s on the bus and who’s not . . . I remember reading somewhere that we are not to say . . . “who shall ascend and who shall descend” . . . God is a mystery and the truth is . . . the most that we ‘know’ about God is that we really don’t know much about God . . . let alone are assumptions about seating assignment on the ‘heavenly bus’ . . . just because someone’s sin . . .

(and I’m not sure what to say about that I don’t want to blow any other gaskets here but while the early church appears from their writtings to indicate that they were 'diligent regarding matters of sexuality' . . . however, it is not logically possible to logically attack exclusive (long term) homosexual relationships outside of an appeal to a moral authority, and given the church's propensity to MISINTREPRET scripture in the past we might just be better off speaking about the damage created in intense short term relationships over time, but that would be difficult since our divorce rate mirrors that of those 'outside' of the church but i digress) . . .

just because someone’s sin is more ‘visible’ than someone else’s is that a reason to financially punish him by not being will to sell his cd? Does that mean that amy grant doesn’t have sin? . . . what about the sandi patti who openly admitted to a heterosexual extra martial affair or maybe even the jars of clay? . . . Here’s the gig for me at least . . . I agree with the guy in fried green tomatoes . . . . I believe that the best way to communicate love is to accept people regardless . . . JUST love them . . . simply . . . NO BUT’s . . . it doesn’t matter what their lifestyle choices are . . . if there is a problem with that . . . that problem exists within us . . . there are far more verses within context that mandate us to love one another. . . without strings . . . without BUT’s . . . like nike’ commercial . . . just do it . . . love our neighbors as ourselves . . . and God Himself knows we all have plenty of sin . . . at least I do . . .

peace :::